Guest: [Music] Sure. Over here. Where are we? Oh, that's bright. 

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Host: Yeah, yeah. Well it's a light, so don't look into it. 

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Guest: Do you have sunglasses I can wear? 

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Host: No, sorry. They weren't in budget. Hi there, everybody. This is a uh welcome back to another episode of uh Between Two Servers. I'm your host, Hayden Baillio, and I'm here with uh Dan–Daniel–Daniel uh Gar–Garcia.

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Guest: Close enough. Okay actually. It's Gar–it is Garcia that's…that's good, this is really. That's really bright wow yeah yeah well… 

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Host: Please don't look at it too long cuz we didn't get insurance for your eyesight stuff so we are not liable for anything that happens with your eyesight. Thank you. Okay, um, Dan, uh, Daniel. 

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Guest: Yes, sir. 

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Host: You've been working with web technology since 1997.

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Guest: I have, yeah.

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Host: Is your CI/CD pipeline also from the Clinton administration or have you updated it since?

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Guest: That is a great question. I'm glad you asked.

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Host: Okay. your mantra is “work smarter, not harder” yet you're giving a talk on CI/CD at a Java conference. Explain this contradiction.

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Guest: Well, “work smarter, not harder” is like you know I honestly when I was a kid I used to love ducktails and Scrooge McDuck that was his mantra to the nephews. work smarter not harder. and I've just made that my uh my life mantra. 

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Host: Scrooge McDuck?

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Guest: Scrooge McDuck. Okay, there was this thing called cartoons last century oh on Disney.

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Host: Interesting.

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Guest: “Work smarter, not harder.”

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Host: Were they in black and white?

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Guest: Some. But only when like did like the old school like 1930s stuff they came back in color by the way. I love that you've got this book and you I sometimes interview people and I am totally going to rip that off.

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Host: Yeah, you should.

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Guest: You look smarter with that. I'm very impressed.

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Host: I am incredibly intelligent this is why I'm interviewing you.

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Guest: That's right.

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Host: As a part-time radio DJ do you also put your code deployments on shuffle and hope for the best?

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Guest: Yes, yes I do.

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Host: Short and to the point, I see. 

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Guest: Well my other mantra is Kiss keep it simple stupid.

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Host: Yeah, wasn't there a band called Kiss too.

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Guest: I think there was i don't think that's what it stood for though.

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Host: Okay.

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Guest: Actually I don't know what Kiss stood for if it was just Kiss or Kiss.

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Host: Your bio mentions you're a cinephile.

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Guest: I am. Is that–that's very important that you get that right by the way. “Cinephile” means I love movies. Movies, people. Please don't mess that up.

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Host: As a ravid cinnaphile–

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Guest: Yes, sir.

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Host: –is your deployment process more like Titanic or The Room?

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Guest: Neither. It's more like Pulp Fiction when it works it's awesome and sometimes you got to get your hands dirty.

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Host: Not a bad answer actually. How does someone who preaches keep it simple stupid explain to management why setting up CI/CD requires 17 different subscription services?

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Guest: Well you got to look for management’s perspective they don't really care about that what they care about is when you bring them into your desk and say "Hit this one button and it works." That's keeping it simple, stupid. Now I'm not calling you stupid because you're much bigger than I am and I would never do that.

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Host: You kind of pointed–you kind of pointed at me though when you said it, so…

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Guest: Well it's because you're I'm not going to point at her she's very nice and so you're kind of here.

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Host: I'm not nice? Uh, okay. I'm not nice and I'm stupid. Thanks, this is going really well Dan.

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Guest: Your words, not mine, sir.

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Host: This is going really well, Dan.

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Guest: No problem. 

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Host: As the “dadiger”–

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Guest: Yes.

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Host: –for your musician son, do you also version control his songs or is your parenting less meth methodical than your code management?

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Guest: Actually it's pretty funny you say that sure holden not Hayden holden Garcia holden Garcia.com he's 11-year-old musician rockstar he's awesome I'm his dad and we do have rules.

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Host: Cut that out.

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Guest: Don't cut that out. Holdengarcia.com, and when we go to a new place to perform we have rules. You got to perform your best because you don't know who's going to be in the crowd that might want to book you. So yeah, we have rules if we go someplace he's just having fun.

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Host: Okay that's enough about your son, Dan, Thank you. 

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Guest: They can…okay. But it's more interesting to talk about.

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Host: You smoke meats as a hobby?

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Guest: I do.

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Host: Is that because you need something that fails less often than your Jenkins pipeline?

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Guest: It depends on the meat. and you know what i don't use Jenkins anymore i don't use it any less i don't use it at all so okay i just don't like Jenkins.

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Host: No, yeah, Jenkins is bad. Anti-jenkins.

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Guest: Leroy Jenkins.

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Host: What's a more painful process explaining CI/CD to developers who don't care or being an aspiring podcaster with no listeners?

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Guest: That is a great question, I’m glad you asked.

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Host: Okay, your bio says you have an irreverent sense of humor. Is that your way of warning us that your get commit messages are just emoji combinations?

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Guest: You know when it comes to get I'm usually pretty good about that because once it's committed it's committed it's usually my irreverency is like in Slack where if I'm like "Oops I crossed the line” delete “I don't know what you're talking about." 

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Host: Doesn't care for much it seems like okay.

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Guest: Or Teams or whatever you use. I don't know what you people use but…

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Host: Teams. He is from a different time, isn't he.

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Guest: Well what's what do the cool kids use not you but what do you use cameraman?

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Host: Andrew doesn't speak. He's mute.

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Guest: Well he’s also asleep.

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Host: As someone who's been in tech since Netscape was cool, at what point did you realize automation was just moving the pain from one place to another?

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Guest: Well, first of all, I was using the net since Mosaic which was before Netscape Navigator so…

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Host: The more you know.

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Guest: Yeah, I'm old. I forgot your question was it about my son Holden Garcia music. I really honestly forgot–squirrel–I forgot the question.

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Host: That's okay we'll just keep moving it along.

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Guest: Oh yeah, well you can edit this in post, right? I don't know why I'm asking him he's not even paying attention but…

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Host: He's mute, I told you. Your talk is called Practical CI/CD how to get started using it. This is at the next conference coming up. 

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Guest: Yes it is. Am I allowed to see it, or…

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Host: Is it just 45 minutes of googling error messages live on stage or…?

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Guest: Okay, first of all, who's dating who? I would never Google it. I would ChatGPT it. First off, ChatGPT, “how do I deploy” and then I would copy pasta.

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Host: Copy pasta.

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Guest: Getting started with deployments. Isn't that what all the cool kids are doing? Again, I'm not asking him, he's shaking his head. Yes, yeah, copy pasta.

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Host: That's what I would do at Olive Garden too yeah I would i miss their never ending possible.

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Guest: Don't they? No, wait i'm thinking a never- ending uh well I don't know if you're missing it, sir, but I’m sorry, I don't mean to do that cuz I've also never missed it.

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Host: You're giving a CI/CD talk with no description currently. Is your deployment strategy equally well documented or is that just your style?

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Guest: That is my style because the conference is at the end of April which means I've got seven weeks six weeks to write it.

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Host: So in developer terms it's like six months, right?

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Guest: Yeah, something like that. 

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Host: So what is that next conference that you're talking about?

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Guest: Can I say what it is?

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Host: Sure.

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Guest: It's called “Into the box.”

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Host: He's already plugged his son.

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Host: Excuse me, I'm talking here. intothebox.org if you want to go there check out we're going to be in Washington DC for its Cold Fusion Conference.

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Host: Cool.

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Guest: And I'll be presenting well.

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Host: Uh…Dan.

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Guest: I'm sorry i didn't mean to cut you off there i'm sorry i I realized I'm being a little rude you've got me on the defensive because dude you kind of got some big guns and I'm a little nervous about that so… 

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Host: Well, Dan, this was delightful. I would say that sentence to somebody else that I interviewed today. Meanwhile, this was just fine. Thank you, Dan. Have a great day and thank you for watching. Thank you.